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122201-feedback-talk-to-me-about-capital-cities
Page 1, Page 2 Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I know that this is not specific to your list but I really think a map revamp would help a lot of players get more acclimated to the environment. For example, one district could be called "Vendor Center" and could be divided into leveling, elder game, auction house, and so on. Honestly, a lot of the problems I had in the game was the UI or display of the map and map icons. It just did not feel "user friendly". I think a capital city design like the Fleets in SWTOR would be very user friendly but that is just my opinion. | |} ---- I love the humor in the game and I am not a witty person so I was not even going to attempt to be creative. | |} ---- ---- I think you mean The Official Protostar Vendotorium™! | |} ---- ---- ---- Actually, I would add a few quests that make you do things in each region of the Capital. Have these quests focus on training the player or teaching them the ropes. For example, I just logged back into the game after Drop 4. I should get a call for a quest chain located in the Capital that will introduce me to the daily quest givers for shiphands and so on. You reach level 50 boom quest chain for all the things in the Capital that you will need for your progression through elder game content. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I'd have to second this, also, why are there bags of I would guess trash everywhere? Sure, there's tons of janitors but is there no one to collect the trash for Illium? | |} ---- ---- This is my main complaint about Thayd really. The only place in the "city" that has something resembling houses is the Aurin gardens. The rest of Thayd consist of walls and rocks that used to be walls. I'd love to see both main hubs turn into livable metropolises as the gameworld matures. (kind of like what FFXIV is doing with Revanant's Toll) Have some roofs over the shop keepers' heads in Thayd's commercial district (And their housing stretching into the skies above their shops). Have academy corner actually look more like an academy instead of a campsite with a hologram. Maybe hide the black hood's center of operations a little bit better? (Here let's torture dominion PoWs in broad daylight next to our bar and DDR machine!) I understand needing shelter for your sciencing is important, but having all that rubble above you can't be safe... and so on. Can't speak for illum since dominion are stuffy and boring. ;D | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- There's a nearly completely unused AH/CX near the church in the NE side of the city. To me, this would be the ideal place to ADD a crafting section (not move the existing one). I for one would move there, even tho it's farther from the transportation. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- There is a giant cathedral... it's just in a part of town with almost nothing around it. It's near where the renown vendor used to be, but that was the only thing around it (and now it's been moved). It's a great place to add SOMETHING, because it's just dead in that area. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I agree, this is also my main complaint. Thayd does not feel like a city, rather like some ... really weird makeshift camp. That's something Guild Wars 2 did right - their cities are large and, especially in case of Divinity's Reach, really look like a city. | |} ---- ---- Except the proximity of that AH/CX to the crafting stations is why Thayd "works" better than Illum. Adding crafting and engraving stations near the other two would probably alleviate some of the crowding in Academy Corners. | |} ---- Thayd is really just a collection of walls and desks. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ROFL! | |} ---- Oh, I agree but the layout just doesn't work right and the congestion is crazy at times. Maybe it could moved a little bit. Same area but move some? Crafting/engraving stations would be good at the other two as well. This to me is just infuriating at times from a design standpoint. Sylvan Glade, Thermok Hold, Woodhaven, Coldwater Commune, etc all seem more "together" from the practical functionality perspective that a city/town would have. Thayd just seems like a big flea market and that's just not right. | |} ---- ---- ---- The question is, how is Sylvan Glade, Thermok Hold, Tempest Refuge, etc all built more so than the capital city? Just seems weird....Thayd is like: Person 1: "Oh look, we have walls! What should we do?" Person 2: "Let's get to building!" Person 3: "Naw, let's just throw a bunch of tents and desks around, that's all we need" Person 1&2: "That sounds easier" The layout isn't necessarily bad (save for the few things myself and others have mentioned), it's just that...you'd think if they can build something like the Explorer's Union HQ in Sylvan or all of the stuff in Thermock...at least a few buildings could've gone up in Thayd by now. The only "buildings" are the Lair of Black Hood's (which is just silly in it's design as a few have pointed out), the main Bank and the very small AH/CX next to it. Oh, I guess the floaty platform for judges in the worst designed court in history is a building too. The rest? It's a flea market in a ruin and a crack alley at best in some places (Sorry Mordesh, here's your hole to science in). As far as Arborian Gardens go, if this is the seat of power for the Aurin, why isn't there a little more going on here? Sylvan Glade makes way more sense than 2 buildings and an underground lair. Just my thoughts on that one. | |} ---- ---- I do not remember, but isn't the queen in Sylvan Glade all the time? I don't think she's around in the Arborian Gardens. It's more of the "Aurin district" rather than the seat of power. As for why Thayd isn't as developed or as big as it should, I offer a metagame explanation: time and space constraints. Making a city the size of a real one takes a long, long time. It also takes a long, long time for the players to traverse it. Everything in the game world is essentially scaled down for the convenience of gameplay. Thayd and Thermrock Hold aren't actually three minues away of each other. It's just that way to not bore the players with constand and long travel times. Of course, that doesn't explain why Thayd is basically 'Hobo Town'. If I had to headcanon it, I'd say the walls are actually hollow. Considering how the Osun seem fond of making fortresses with no living spaces at all, however, it's a big hard to say. Maybe all the living spaces are underground. | |} ---- ---- Oh yeah it's not an excuse as to why it doesn't look "lived in" but it is an excuse as to why there isn't such a huge hustle and bustle. Thayd isn't even a town. It's a series of nooks. >.> | |} ---- ---- I kinda get the impression that Thayd isn't supposed to be a city in the sense we usually think of one as, with people living in it and whatnot. It's more of a military/intelligence/market hub with some displaced taking up residence in the corners. It feels like most Exile civilians have established settlements outside of Thayd, while Thayd is just the place you pop over to if you want a cosmopolitan market. I mean, the "city" was just constructed in the middle of Osun ruins - hence the massive walls which are pretty hard to build homes into. In contrast, Illium definitely comes across as a place that many Dominion citizens (particularly Highborn Cassians, but y'know) actually live in, what with all of the housing fronts lining the streets. I just wish we could actually go inside a number of them... But I guess my point is, Thayd was constructed not as a livable city, but as a base of operations, with the Exiles themselves being much more scattered. | |} ---- The exact same thing I was thinking myself. I've never played an exile but when visiting the area, I get the impression that it's a practical stronghold of the exiles. They either fought out the osun or just moved in to an abandoned osun area. This would make sense as it would make for a strong shelter from the dominion. If the exiles were setup much like the dominion are (large open city), the dominion would likely just bombard them to oblivion where as the dominion clearly have a secured area with turrets and ships all around for protection. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I posted about this at release. I was really surprised there where no children at all (not just the cities but no where in nexus) to be found. I kind of see why there wouldn't be many outwith the safety of the cities but why not in them. Other mmo's have kids running around why can't wildstar. I know this isn't exactly priority type content :P but it would just add a little more immersion for some of us. | |} ---- It always bugged me that there were no children in Rift, it doesn't bother me as much in WIldstar. dunno why | |} ---- ---- Not really. The actual cities themselves -- the structures used, etc. -- do not divide neatly into plugs. If we make significant changes in the cities, that's not going to be through the plug system. That said, all of the city space IS divided into plugs for use in decorating for holidays and the like. | |} ---- ---- ---- I second this post. I haaaaaaate even having to go into Thayd for anything because I know I'm just going to get annoyed to hell and back by how awful the framerate is. | |} ---- tyvm | |} ---- Guess we are not talking about the exile | |} ---- ---- ---- Yeah, there just seems to be loads of tents everywhere. There seems to be no conscious effort by the exiles to start building | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- My opinion is that Illium currently is mainly reduced to space port area. That does make sense to a degree since its a transport hub, but unfortunately its too far from the prettiest and meatiest parts of the city. There is little motivation go to the Church area for example, especially since renown and elder gems vendors have effectively moved out. Navigating across there is also a pain in the butt. I honestly have not discovered that area until a month into the game. Right now the focal point of Illium is in the wrong place, and I would love to see it moved to the core areas of the city. It makes a whole lot of sense both lore-, gameplay- and aesthetics-wise. | |} ---- ---- ---- I'm a little confused as to why you can't drop a crafting+engraving station in the Gardens and that marketplace so that traffic in Academy Corner isn't so... obnoxiously clogging. :S | |} ---- I want to thank you for keeping this in mind. My computer isn't good. I've been lamenting the new additions to Illium that dumped even more stuff around the Transmat. But, I realize such troubles are completely my fault, and that the new quests/vendors are in a VERY good, convenient, and appropriate place, in my opinion. Even with the new additions to Illium I can still zone in without crashing...Most of the time. The worst offender for performance is still the crafting area in Thayd. That area is way dense. More transmats in the cities as others have suggested would be great. The tour bikes show how nicely the amenities are spread, but there's just no way of getting to them in a decent fashion from the one transmat there is. Taking Illium as an example, the placement leans heavily toward the 'more important' side of the city. Adding even one more on the eastern side would put two more trade hubs within convenient distance. Of course, this would work best if you could make the City Teleport spells redirect to the spot of your choosing, or putting the destination in a more central location. | |} ---- I'll happily explain why: that wouldn't solve the clogging issue. It might for a relatively small group of people, but there are more reasons why that space ends up the most used AH/CX by far. That particular area of trade is also the one closest to the transport in Thayd, and not far away from the new daily hub. It's also closest to the transmat device, so people porting back to the city will run north a short way rather than running halfway around the city to get to Arborian Gardens. That particular AH/CX is far and away the most convenient for everyone, not just crafters. The actual solution needs to be more substantial than just plonking down a new crafting station or two. I appreciate that you're thinking about it, though. :) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Ah, but the majority of folks use the city teleport to get back and not necessarily their transmat, which can't be placed in multiple locations. Again, it's a band-aid, not a true solution to the problem. I'd much rather implement a more comprehensive solution surrounding the design of the cities themselves. | |} ---- ---- Unfortunately, the teleports are not there most of the time in Thyad. And I hate having to traverse the city from one end to the other to and from the housing guy. Yes, I do use my housing teleport, but it has a 30 minute CD. At least in Illium, the museum and Enigma Chamber are close to each other. | |} ---- ---- Actually I'm referring to the city teleport that you get from completing the tour quests, not the settler-built in-city teleports. If you haven't done the tour quests yet, you should! :) | |} ---- Well, and again, like the housing teleport, it has a 30 minute CD. Not very useful if you want to get around the city. The settler teleports should remain. At least that is my $.02 | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Hey there Caydiem, other people seem to be running with the layout and accessibility issues so I'll expand on this one. Again with illium as the focus I just feel that you're really missing out on a great opportunity by keeping the design focus so Cassian-oriented. Yes the Dominion is very Cassian, yes it's supposed to be squeaky clean and polished to contrast the Exiles, and yes the city should have a large Cassian influence. However that being said it's boring. It's one-note, dull, visually tiring and doesn't help Illium's problem of being a lifeless maze. At present you have a city that is 98% cassian, 1% chua, and 1% draken due to those single-room instances with the exterior wall decor. Is it too much to ask for 80% / 10% / 10%? When you were building this game you made the conscious decision to skip racial cities and go with a single unified hub for each faction, probably a good idea in retrospect as it makes the game feel more alive. However if you're going to do so it's in your best interest to make it as interesting, appealing, and reflective of that faction as possible since that is your ONE city. Illium does a poor job of of this. I don't even really like Thayd all that much either but where Illium has nothing, at least Thayd has something. Specifics... Illium is a city that desperately wants to be sub-divided into unique areas that offer better access to key services and bring more life and interest to the place. We have some areas now, but like I said above they are all very one-note. You have the spaceport, the crafting area, the garden, the legion's rise, the military training grounds, the beautiful plaza with the statue etc... It's a good start, but it's honestly just not enough. Keeping the chua and the Draken flavor out of the city in favor of small leveling outposts that are quickly forgotten isn't doing the faction as a whole justice. The Dominion is a diverse group just like the exiles, but they handle their diversity differently, play off of that with Illium. Have an obvious divide between the sequestered Cassians and their Mechari cohorts in their bright, shining, perfect parts of the city and the parts of the city occupied mostly by chua / Draken / lowborn cassians. Show us that it's a faction with very different ideas about how to live together and use that to tell players something about the Dominion. You could even use verticality to your advantage where the upper echelons of dominion society live in luxurious penthouse apartments overlooking the city, as you go lower and lower down the luxury and oppressive cleanliness give way to the realities of life and paint a stark contrast between being highborn and lowborn. How cool would it be to see this powerful, meticulously maintained, beautiful cityscape with lush gardens and impressive structures, only to wander around and find a crowded alley filled with Chua buildings, shops, and other things kept out of sight and out of mind. There is a ton of possibilities for fluff and flavor in Illium but it needs to come with more visual interest and with the current catalog of racial props we have to work with there's an easy way to do so, you just have to be clever about it. I'd also love more building interiors but that likely comes with significant development time and performance concerns, but the sky's the limit in this thread and I adore being able to go inside things. It's what separated a cities in Guild Wars from cities in WoW (in that they felt lifeless and terrible in one game, and really interesting and fun even a decade on in another) | |} ---- I like what most people have suggested so far. I really only have experience in Thayd, but here's what my changes would boil down to (aside from my first post in this thread, extolling the virtues of longer time on the settler buffs/less resources taken to create and more cool stuff under the settler project itself): Move the daily hub up the stairs to the top of the platform west of where it is. There should be enough space up there and it's relatively far from other clustered areas, but as you only need to go there once a day or so it should be acceptable. Then, relocate the Transmat hub to where the dailies currently are -- This puts it almost directly in the middle of Thayd (give or take). Drop a Protostar housing transport hologram in this section as well -- perhaps even as a settler-built option. Put Engraving stations and crafting tables in Fortune's ground and the gardens, close but not too close to the current bank/cx/mailbox (about the same distance between the Academy Corner mailbox/crafting area). There's some space near the steps down to Whitevale that would be good, maybe even a small pavilion right at the top of the stairs or where the vendors are near the wall -- give the vendors a tent at the top of the stairs that traffic would need to flow around. An appropriate place for the mount vendor! I'd put the Gardens' crafting tables a bit to the west. Where the transmat used to be can be expanded target dummies and practice area and more spread-out PVP vendors. Add Renown and crafting vendors to Fortune's ground (or just combine some vendors' wares and make the empty vendors sell the PVE/Renown gear) for a more varied vendor feel. You should be able to find ANYTHING in Fortune's Ground for sale, after all... This layout spreads out the services a bit, and gives a roughly equidistant travel to each of the "commerce hubs"; and makes each destination a valid choice depending on aesthetics. There's probably some more polish that can be done, but this is a much more Hub-and-spoke style layout. The only thing that this doesn't account for is the spaceport. This could be handled by the exiles banding together and actually doing a project ABOVE where the traverse tunnels are; laying flat the top and moving the terminals and ships to the top, where it would be more convenient to land and take off anyway (though need to put some AA guns up there too to keep the pesky Dominion away). Then, have several paths to the top -- a manual path to appease explorers for aesthetics (something with switchbacks like on the way to the museum) and several clickable entrances, perhaps one on each side of the new "tower" and one next to the transmat portal that take you to a door at the top immediately, like the shortcut to the top of the cliff and transmitter in Galeras behind Tempest Refuge. You can even make a teleporter station at the top (when they're up). Edited February 26, 2015 by Alyred | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Like this? | |} ----